Genesis 1:2

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And the earth was waste and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep: and the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters (ASV)

Contents

Pro

To create the Universe a god must have been outside of time and space, because both of them didn't exist yet, so it is already contradictory to state that this god is everywhere without being in space -he's nowhere, if we follow that he is outside of it-, and it also is contradictory to state that this god is ethernal without even being in time -he's "nowhen" if we follow that he is outside of it-, but anyway the Bible states that he "moved upon the face of waters", yet to move he had to be within space, ergo, the book is contradicting itself, since the spirit is not spatial. So if it's not spatial, it CANNOT move.

The only options would be to: a)prove that spirit is spatial so it can move b)argue against physics, trying to prove how unspatial things can move

--AFOH 20:34, 21 Oct 2007 (GMT -6)


Con

To create the Universe a god must have been outside of time and space, because both of them didn't exist yet, so it is already contradictory to state that this god is everywhere without being in space -he's nowhere, if we follow that he is outside of it-, and it also is contradictory to state that this god is ethernal without even being in time -he's "nowhen" if we follow that he is outside of it-, but anyway the Bible states that he "moved upon the face of waters", yet to move he had to be within space, ergo, the book is contradicting itself, since the spirit is not spatial. So if it's not spatial, it CANNOT move.

The only options would be to: a)prove that spirit is spatial so it can move b)argue against physics, trying to prove how unspatial things can move


The argument is the Pro section is confused and, frankly, embarrassing.

"...it is already contradictory to state that this god is everywhere without being in space..."

He wasn't in space before space was created. After space was made, he was. That should be obvious.

Zeta Metroid 01:29, 9 November 2011 (EST)

Neutral

In Young's translation: "1 In the beginning of God's preparing the heavens and the earth -- 2 the earth hath existed waste and void, and darkness [is] on the face of the deep, and the Spirit of God fluttering on the face of the waters," (Genesis 1:1-2, Young's Literal Translation (YLT), Public Domain)

This does not support the conclusion of creation ex nihilo that some other western translations suggest. Note especially that verse 2 suggests that 'the waters' existed before God 'prepared' heaven and earth.

This bears a great deal of similarity to the Enuma Elish of Babylon, and to the Atum the Creator and Kephri the Creator myths from Egypt (and, one would assume, toother ANE creation myths), where the heavens and earth were created from some form of primal chaos. In all four cases cited (Bible, Enuma Elish, Atun, and Kephri), chaos is related to water.
For more information, please see:

--JustinEiler 13:50, 19 Aug 2005 (CDT)

The doctrine of creation ex nihilo is not based solely on Genesis 1:1 but on the overall teaching of Scripture, including Psalm 33:6 and 148:5, John 1:3, Acts 17:24, Romans 4:17, 1 Cor. 1:28, Colossians 1:16, and Hebrews 11:3.

--User:M. Pierce 09:50, 15 Oct 2005

To be sure--there are very few doctrines that pull from a single text, and the doctrine of creation ex nihlo is not one of these. However, examining the Genesis 1 account gives doubt that this specific passage is speaking of creation from nothing. The Genesis creation account bears similarity to other ANE creation accounts--creation as "making order from chaos," rather than creation ex nihlo.
I am persuaded that the doctrine of creation ex nihlo was a later development ... a development that contradicts a literal reading of this account.
--JustinEiler 10:20, 16 Oct 2005 (CDT)


Compare with Genesis 8:1, where God also lets a wind (the Hebrew word for "wind" amd "spirit" is the same) blow across the earth - after the flood. Actually it's worth comparing Genesis 1-3 with the Flood story - there are many patallels. --FreezBee 11:40, 18 May 2006 (CDT)

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