Talk:Job 1:7

Omnipotence and omniscience were attributes assigned by the Hebrews to their god in the generations preceding the common era. Greek philosophy and culture had had an enormous influence in Palestine yor years. Look to Plato for blame.

Omni-traits didn't seem to be part of the Jewish mythos until after Alexander and the Hellenicization of Jewish culture: additionally the idea of "God as Omni-Max" seems to be more closely related to Stoicism than Platonism. Remember, Plato didn't believe in Gods per se ....

It's a possibility that the later books (last half of Daniel, Ecclesiastes, and several of the non-Canonicals) were affected by the concept of "God as omnimax," but before Alexander came through, there's just not enough of a documentable connection between Greek and Jewish cultures.

--JustinEiler 20:48, 7 Oct 2005 (CDT)

I'd argue that Plato's concept of idealized forms could have been easily provided a philosophical rationale for the Hewbrew move to monotheism and away from henotheism. They had a lot to deal with. Returning from Babylon and reestablishing the priestly families and their responsibilities in the temple, coping with Persian and Hellenistic trends, having a diaspora flung throughout the Mediterranean basin and renewed occupation by Rome could together have caused them to generate what might be called a delusion of grandeur these days. TB

It makes an interesting conjecture, but we just don't have enough in the way of observable contact between Greek and Hebrew cultures prior to Alexander--and when he came through, the Torah (and much, but not all, of the rest of the Tenach) was already in place.

Instead of Greek, I'm tempted to think the concept of "God as Omnimax" came from Mesopotamia. Jeremiah and Isaiah are the strongest claims for an omnimax God in the Tenach, and I'll agree that these books were heavily influenced by a non-Hebrew culture, but it looks more like Assyrian/Babylonian influence than Greek.

--JustinEiler 08:55, 12 Oct 2005 (CDT)

Did the Hebrews settle on the omnimax deity idea in the early Rabbinic period or is this issue still disputed in some precincts?

I'm not sure when you would consider the "Rabbinic period" as starting: for my part, I tend to think of it as being post-70 CE, after the destruction of the Second Temple and the dispersion of the Jews. However, even before that time, there were rabbis.

As for the development of an Omni-Deity, I see that as part and parcel with the transition from earlier henotheism to post-Exhilic and post-Hellenistic monotheism. When you have the only God in town, it only makes sense that your God can do anything.

Of course, I don't feel it was a sudden or immediate transition: but the problem with making definite statements is that there is a paucity of evidence. Soem aprts of the Tanach read as though YHVH was only a tribal God of the Hebrews ... some parts read as though YHVH is the only God that exists, and all other "Gods" are either false idols or demons.

I do give some credence to the concepts put forth by Dever and Silberman that "monotheism" came to prominence during King Josiah's reign (7th cent. BCE), but I think the full-blown development of an "Omnimax God" requires a connection with the philosophy of the Greeks--a connection that I've seen no evidence of before Alexander. However, that doesn't mean that the evidence doesn't exist--simply that I've not seen any. If anyone has evidence of extensive pre-Alexandrian contact between the Jews and the Greeks, I'd be fascinated.

--JustinEiler 13:47, 14 Oct 2005 (CDT)

It's a question whether the concept of God in Job is based on Greek inspiration. To me Persian (Zoroastrian) inspiration is somewhat more likely, possibly mixed up with some Greek. The mythology of Job is "old-school", but that's probably in order to give the book a "once upon a time" look-and-feel. The book is mainly apologetic, introducing Satan as the real culprit when things go wrong. In the Psalms and the Proverbs the good guys prosper and the bad guys fail. So why do things go wrong for Job, a supposedly very good guy? This kind of apologetic literature would belong to a time, where the actions of a god could be discussed, but since the solution is that God indeed does what is good, it's not a philosophical dissertation. In Job 39-40 we are introduced to the two "chaos monsters" Leviathan and Behemoth, where Leviathan is occasionally interpreted as Egypt. Behemoth would then be a "land-based" traditional threat such as Assyria/Babylonia. Who "tamed" these two? The Persians!

--FreezBee 07:30, 10 Apr 2006 (CDT)