Titus 1:2

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in hope of eternal life, which God, who cannot lie, promised before times eternal; (ASV)

Contents

Pro

Contrary to the above, God lies about the effects of eating the Forbidden Fruit (Genesis 2:17).

God also lies (or, at best, "deceives" or sends a "lying spirit") in 1 Kings 22:23, 2 Chronicles 18:22, Jeremiah 4:10, Jeremiah 20:7, Ezekiel 14:9 and 2 Thessalonians 2:11. --Robert Stevens 07:29, 24 Nov 2005 (CST)

Con

Argument for Error Contrary to the above, God lies about the effects of eating the Forbidden Fruit (Genesis 2:17).

Answer God doesn't lie. Adam and Eve's falling out of grace certainly resulted in physical death and the falling out itself can be described in a sense as a death. --July 4, 2009, 8:15 PM

Argument for Error God also lies (or, at best, "deceives" or sends a "lying spirit") in 1 Kings 22:23, 2 Chronicles 18:22, Jeremiah 4:10, Jeremiah 20:7, Ezekiel 14:9 and 2 Thessalonians 2:11.

Answer Lying spirits include: 1 Kings 22:23 and 2 Chronicles 18:22. This is a Hebrew metaphorical expression for a situation which God created that the person decided to act, through his own will, in a certain way. Proof of this is the perennial example of Pharaoh. In Exodus 10:1 where it says that God hardened his heart, but Exodus 9:33-34 explains that this was due to a miracle Moses did.

Deception includes: Jeremiah 4:10, Jeremiah 20:7, Ezekiel 14:9, and 2 Thessalonians 2:11. In the first case, it cannot be known exactly what God said. It may have been that God said there will be peace, without specifying the time, making the imminent doom part of His judgment. This is not an evil deception, with the connotation that the deception has, but part of his judgment, and is not in any fundamental way different from when Jesus allowed two of his disciples to think he was a stranger when he met them on the road to Emmaus after his Resurrection in order to surprise them at the dinner (Luke 24:13-35; also the specific example within this example: Luke 24:28-29; nobody could accuse Christ of 'deceit' in this case, nor could one accuse God for concealing something, not lying, in order to bring judgment on people who deserved it).

The case of Jeremiah 20:7 most likely means that Jeremiah is swayed or persuaded, either through inspiration, or personal duty and obedience to God, to prophesy and is ridiculed for it.

Ezekiel 14:9 falls similarly under the first category; God has made a situation where a prophet acts with accordance to his desire to sin. This is not God condoning sin, because God would know that this person's heart would want to sin regardless of the situation, so it is being physically carried out.

In the case of 2 Thessalonians 2:11, God creates a delusion which does not in itself cause sin, but serves to make the unrepentant think on the surface that they are not doing anything wrong for the symbolic purpose of their destruction (cf. Philippians 1:28). --July 4, 2009, 8:39 PM

Neutral

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