Luke 2:2 Ramsey
Now here is an article worth responding to:
Interesting that after 100 years it's still the best related Con argument freely available.
--JoeWallack 15:19, 18 Aug 2006 (CDT)
Chapter 6. Luke’s Account of the Enrollment
"We observe that Luke knew about more than one “enrollment” or census (to use the strict Roman term). In 2:2 he speaks of a certain census as “the first”; in Acts 5:37 he mentions the census,” i.e., the great census, meaning the epoch-making census taken about AD. 7, when Judea had just been incorporated in the Roman empire as part of the province of Syria. According to the proper and accepted canons of interpretation in ancient literature, he must be understood in these expressions to distinguish between the first census and the great census. In an ordinary Greek writer the distinction would be unhesitatingly drawn. Why should some scholars assume that Luke thought there had been one single census, as to the date of which he was in a the system had been in force for a time, at least, throughout the Syrian lands. Further, it is not easy to admit that Luke could have used these words, unless the system had come into permanent use."
JW:
- Ramsey's supposed point here is that the use of "first" in 2:2 indicates there was more than one census. Next, that "Luke's" specific choice of words in Acts 5:37 indicates that the census referred to in Acts 5:37 is different from the census referred to in 2:2.
- It's generally agreed that the use of "first" means according to "Luke" that there was more than one such census. The specific wording of Acts 5:37 though not only does not support a meaning that it was a different census, it supports the meaning that it was the Same census. "Luke" doesn't say in Acts 5:37 "great", that's Ramsey's word. "Luke" just refers with "the census". Since the only census other than Acts 5:37 that "Luke" describes is 2:2 the most logical explanation is that "the census" of Acts 5:37 refers to 2:2. It might be possible to take "the census" of Acts 5:37 in a general sense such as resistance to all Roman censuses in Judea but even than the census of 2:2 is not specifically differentiated from Acts 5:37.
Chapter 8. The Syrian Enrollment in 8 BC
"Any rational and scholarly criticism must accept the conclusion: There was a system of periodic enrollment in the Province Syria, according to a Fourteen-Years’-Cycle (in the modern expression — Fifteen-Years’-Cycle in the Roman form), and the first enrollment was made in the year 8 BC. (strictly the Syrian year beginning in the spring of 8 BC.)."
JW:
- Ramsey makes the above Conclusion based on a ridiculous argument that treats any supposedly favorable Implication like an Explicit statement and gives no weight to all statements with unfavorable implications. Other than wanting to create a series of every 14 years censuses in Syria it's difficult to even identify what in Ramsey's argument here is evidence making him think there was a 14 year cycle, let alone prove there was. Ramsey cites Tertullian as saying there was a census in Syria by Sentius Saturninus. Sentius Saturninus was governor of Syria in 9-6 BCE but the context is when Jesus' brothers were supposedly born and this isn't Quirinius anyway. As Tertullian of course never says "9-6 BCE" he has probably confused Sentius Saturninus with another Saturninus who governed Syria 4-5 CE. There is no Explicit evidence that there was a 14 year cycle of censuses in Syria. There was a registration of support for Augustus in 8 BCE but the applicable Greek word is not used by "Luke". The 8 BCE registration wouldn't apply anyway to Joseph or Mary since they probably were not Roman citizens and such a registration wouldn't require that they go to Bethlehem. Josephus gives a clear reason why there was a census when Quirinius became governor of Syria, because it was right after Archelaus was deposed.
Chapter 9. King Herod’s Enrollment
"It is, therefore, natural and probable that a postponement of the enrollment should have been granted to Herod; and, although our authorities merely say that an embassy was sent, and give no information as to the exact message, yet we may fairly assume that it was intended both to soothe the anger of Augustus and to beg for exemption from the enrollment, on the ground that this was likely to rouse the religious feeling of the Jews and cause disturbance and insurrection."
JW:
- Based on what comes before the above Ramsey has already decided that Syria had a census in 8 BCE. Once again it's difficult to see any evidence for Ramsey that there was a census in Israel here not long after 8 BCE other than his wish for there to be one.
"Herod was naturally eager to avoid giving to the enrollment an entirely foreign and non-national character Such a character both accentuated his own humiliation and was more liable to rouse the ever-wakeful pride and jealousy of his Jewish subjects. Obviously, the best way to soothe the Jewish sentiment was to give the enrollment a tribal character and to number the tribes of Israel, as had been done by purely national Governments."
JW:
- Again, there is no evidence for this other than Ramsey's desire to have a reason for Joseph to go to Bethlehem.
Chapter 11. Quirinius the Governor of Syria
"Accordingly, the probability is that in BC. 7, when Varus came to govern Syria, Augustus perceived that the internal affairs of the province would require all the energy of the regular governor, and sent at the same time a special officer with the usual title, Lieutenant of Augustus, to administer the military resources of the province, and specially to conduct the war against the Homonadenses and any other foreign relations that demanded military intervention. Moreover, Varus had no experience in war; and an experienced officer was needed. Thus, Quirinius conducted the war pretty certainly in BC. 6, perhaps in 7 and 6, perhaps in 6 and 5.
The first periodic enrollment of Syria was made under Saturninus in BC. 8-7. The enrollment of Palestine was delayed by the causes described until the late summer or autumn of BC. 6. At that time, Varus was controlling the internal affairs of Syria, while Quirinius was commanding its armies and directing its foreign policy."
JW:
- Here Ramsey has some support. It's generally agreed that Quirinius did lead the campaign against the Homonadenses around this time. But the problems with taking this to mean what 2:2 refers to with "ruler/leader" and "Syria" are:
- 1) Quirinius is described as ruler/leader of Syria without qualification so the implication is that Governor is meant.
- 2) The campaign against the Homonadenses was in a Province next to Syria.
- 3) The "ruler/leader" of 2:2 is in the Genetive so it means "ruler of Syria" and not "ruler in Syria".
In Summary, here is Ramsey's Defense:
Augustus decreed that periodic censuses be taken starting around 8 BCE. Quirinius was in a leadership position of Syria not many years after. Herod the Great delayed his related first census for a few years and styled it as a Jewish census to reduce local resistance. This is the census that "Luke" refers to. Josephus refers to a different census of 6-7 CE.
Here are Ramsey's Key Points:
1) Augustus decreed that periodic censuses be taken starting around 8 BCE.
2) Quirinius was in a leadership position of Syria not many years after 8 BCE.
3) Herod the Great delayed his related first census for a few years.
4) Herod the Great styled it as a Jewish census to reduce local resistance.
5) "Luke" refers to the census above.
6) Josephus refers to a different census in 6-7 CE.
Ramsey's General Problem is he has no Explicit support for any of the above and has to Ignore/Minimize Explicit support arguing against his Defense. Here is the Support and Problems with each Key Point:
1) Augustus decreed that periodic censuses be taken starting around 8 BCE.
Support:
1 - Augustus called for an Oath taking registration for Roman citizens around 8 BCE.
2 - Egypt had periodic censuses.
Problems:
1 - While there were subsequent oath taking registrations there is no evidence that Augustus decreed anything more in 8 BCE than a registration in 8 BCE.
2 - This registration was oath taking and not a census.
3 - "Luke" uses the word for a census and not for an oath taking.
2) Quirinius was in a leadership position of Syria not many years after 8 BCE.
Support:
1 - Quirinius lead a campaign against the Homonadenses around this time.
2 - Syria held the Roman military power in the East so any such campaign likely involved troops based in Syria.
Problems:
1 - 2:2 describes Quirinius as ruler/leader of Syria without qualification so the implication is that Governor is meant.
2 - The campaign against the Homonadenses was in a Province next to Syria.
3 - The "ruler/leader" of 2:2 is in the Genetive so it means "ruler of Syria" and not "ruler in Syria".
3) Herod the Great delayed his related first census for a few years.
Support:
None
Problems:
1 - Josephus specializes in chronicling Herod the Great and gives no indication of any such census.
2 - Israel under Herod the Great was set-up as a standard tributary Kingdom and we have no evidence that this was ever changed under Herod the Great.
3 - The history of Rome and examples such as Strabo indicate that for independent Kingdoms such as Herod the Great's there would have been no Roman census.
4 - The coin evidence indicates no Roman involvement in monetary control during Herod the Great's reign.
4) Herod the Great styled it as a Jewish census to reduce local resistance.
Support:
None
Problems:
1 - Ramsey's supposed point regarding this alleged census is that Augustus didn't trust Herod the Great any more. So how exactly does Herod the Great receive sufficient control so as to avoid appearence that the Romans are really in control?
2 - No evidence in Herod the Great's time or anywhere near it that a Jewish census would require traveling to an ancestral home.
3 - Similarly, no evidence that Mary would need to make such a trip.
5) "Luke" refers to the census above.
Support:
1 - The use of "first" in 2:2 means this was the earliest of related censuses.
2 - Tertullian indicated that Jesus' brothers were born while Sentius Saturninus governed Syria. Saturninus governed Syria in 9-6 BCE.
Problems:
1 - Josephus and others only refer to a famous census of 6-7 CE when Quirinius became governor of Syria. For "Luke" to make no distinction from this census makes it likely she intended to refer to the same census.
2 - The wording "Luke" uses in Acts 5:37, "the census" indicates she was referring to the same census as 2:2 and Josephus.
3 - The resistance that Josephus reports towards Roman censuses in Judea makes it unlikely that an earlier census with any significant Roman involvement would escape his attention, especially one done while Israel had its own King.
4 - Regarding Tertullian who can be doubted here for a number of reasons, even if Jesus' brothers were born 9-6 BCE, than when would the first born Jesus be born?
6) Josephus refers to a different census in 6-7 CE.
Support:
None
Problem:
Josephus and others identify the census of 6-7 CE and none of them give any reason to think this was the later of related censuses.
--JoeWallack 09:09, 23 Aug 2006 (CDT)
